Question about salutes?

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Question about salutes?

Post by NightKnight » September 10th, 2017, 10:29 pm

Stephen Colbert: He makes a Nazi salute on national tv...Question: Does the meaning of the salute matter or the person who makes it?

[Cappi's edit]
Hey there, Just wanted to let you know that I just changed the title rather than deleting this. I'm curious to see where this is gonna go. I am going to move this as well to the serious discussion thread as well.
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Re: Question about salutes?

Post by Combiseries » September 11th, 2017, 12:55 am

I think the meaning of the salute matters, and then more so to the people who experienced the war and it's atrocities.

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Re: Question about salutes?

Post by TigerAceRay » September 11th, 2017, 6:45 am

I would agree the meaning is more important. I mean we (the US, not sure if there were other nations using it) used the same style (The US used a Bellamy Salute) salute until WW2, when we changed it in 1942, during the Pledge of Allegiance for the hand-over-heart salute instead.

So going on that, there's a huge difference in the meaning of our use of the salute and obviously Nazi Germany.

It's a complicated topic because it appears it was a pretty common style of salute until it was hijacked in the 1920s and 30s by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Italy used a Roman Salute, and Nazi Germany used what is referred to as the Nazi Salute or Hitler Salute. All 4 are very similar in style and I would say the ones used by Nazi Germany and Italy have a different meaning than Roman or Bellamy styles that other countries and the US used commonly. One group using it to show respect and love for their country through the Pledge of Allegiance and the other group using it to unite if you will a nation in opposition of minority groups and just pure hate for anything anti-Nazi Germany etc.
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Re: Question about salutes?

Post by The Doctor » September 12th, 2017, 9:20 pm

I'm gonna start off by saying that due to the fact that I am still in school, I see this sort of stuff more than I care for. That gives me a slightly different perspective.

Now, I can see your question being in two slightly different ways. The first is whether or not the person making the salute truly believes it is making the difference. Now, I will say that a person who truly believes in it also takes upon the meaning of the salute in that instance. When they truly believe it, they believe everything that salute stands for. The second way is the one I see as being more likely to be your question, and that is "Does it matter what that person is trying toconvey?"That is, what they want to say with their salute, rather than what the salute means at its core. And that's where things are a little more messy.

I went ahead and watched Colbert making the salute, and he was very obviously making the salute simply to mock Trump. What HE meant at that particular moment was to mock, to call Trump a Nazi supporter (this is in response to Trump's comments on the entirety of the white supremacist a little while back, and Trump having not called out any specific group). That in it of itself I would say was wrong, as it is explicitly stated as wrong to be tearing each other down in scripture. But I digress, and will get back to a more general sense, as the question is structured.

This also happens to be where things get a little more messy. There is no real direct talk of salutes in the Bible, however, I could find a few mentions. Specifically, Romans 16:13 and Hebrews 13:24. You'll notice that in the ESV both verses start with "Greet," however, in the original Greek the word was "ἀσπάσασθε " or "aspazomai" using an English alphabet. This word seems to have a respectful connotation to it, so what Paul says in both instances is to greet these people with respect. As such, the KJV translates this word to "salute" here, and in some other instances where this word is mentioned. In other words, anytime anything similar to saluting was mentioned, it carried a tone of respect with it, and wasauthentic.

That said, I'm not sure if they used physical salutes, or only honored them in some way. But I don't think it would have mattered. The purpose of the salute was to honor, and whether it was a specified action or not wouldn't have changed themeaningbehind it.

However, none of this answers the base question. I would say that a lot of it comes down to what a symbol is in its purest form:a sign of respect.

As I said before, I'm still in school, so I see this stuff a fair amount, mostly as jokes. When I see this happening, I can't help but getting a feeling of why, why does this have to happen? I think the reason I generally have this thought is because I don't understand there to be a need for the utter disrespect. Not disrespect for the Nazis, but for those affected by them. They don't mean the gesture in a way that they believe in Nazism, but the joke still conveys the message of Nazism to some degree.

So if you want a short answer, I would have to say both convey meaning. However, the majority of the weight comes from the symbolism of the salute. A salute is, at it's core, meant to show respect for whatever it is was made to represent. To use that salute is to show respect for that in some form, even if meant in a mocking fashion.
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