Net Neutrality and your thoughts

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loot
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by loot » December 10th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Certain protocols (e.g. torrents) will occupy every single bit of excess capacity a network has

As a network operator, one would feel that it is reasonable to implement QoS upon or prohibit a protocol that launches excessive sockets, consumes 80% of their bandwidth, causes 95% of their legal department's expenditures and is only used by 20% or less of their users.

As a downstream internet user (most cable infrastructure looks like this) having my own internet speeds demolished by a neighbour using these protocols, I would also be in favour.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by Scrunch » December 10th, 2017, 2:00 pm

I completely agree with what you're saying, except local municipalities actually do regulate who can put wire in the ground. Neither the big Net-Neutrality players or the FedGov are pushing for what is needed, which is true innovation and lower barriers to entry into the market as a whole. Net-Neutrality accomplishes pretty much nothing. But ISPs aren't moving the market forward either.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by NeoJabez » December 10th, 2017, 4:17 pm

We talk about 'the industry', but I've read that all of the major media companies are all owned by like 6 companies, so...

All of this benefits them, one way or another.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by Kratos » December 10th, 2017, 8:42 pm

NeoJabez wrote:We talk about 'the industry', but I've read that all of the major media companies are all owned by like 6 companies, so...

All of this benefits them, one way or another.
Well, that's the point, isn't it? This benefits everyone but the consumer no matter which way it goes. These companies will make money. Either with net neutrality or without it. They'll make more without it, you'd assume, and these other companies (facebook, netflix, etc.) are going to make their money, they'll make more WITH net neutrality.

The problem is the overall system, not whether or not we have net neutrality. Neo mentioned how only six companies hold the keys and as far as I understand it, that's true. The government, as in many areas, has allowed a monopoly on the internet and because of that we are at the whim of whatever those companies want. The solution isn't to add more government stipulations and mandates, but rather to open the market. This would take time, obviously, but if we have more providers it'll generate competition which drives prices down, quality of service up, and at the end of the day truly benefits the consumer.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by NeoJabez » December 11th, 2017, 12:13 am

I believe I agree with that. Competition is a good thing in markets, and there doesn't seem to be enough of that in this situation.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by shadowsbane » December 11th, 2017, 9:13 am

NeoJabez wrote:I believe I agree with that. Competition is a good thing in markets, and there doesn't seem to be enough of that in this situation.
I wonder why that is...
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by Imagine Wagons » December 11th, 2017, 11:55 am

This is awesome hearing things from both sides. Thanks everyone! Aslo I wanted to add that I am not opposed to net neutrality but it needs a re-write because of Title II, which makes broadband a common carrier making it harder for local ISPs who dont have it yet, and want to have it, harder for them to enter the market.

Also after doing more research on both pro-Net Neutrality and against net neutrality, both want a fair and open internet but those who are against it are against the FCC being in control of broadband, in essance wants the government out of the internet but want the FTC to take it over which would still protect the customers, however those who are pro-Net Neutrality are for the FCC being in control and are against the market regulation or FTC being in control.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by KustomElvis » December 11th, 2017, 3:26 pm

Too much hate, too much fear mongering, too much crap to put myself in a position of which side I want to fight for. When it comes to the 2nd amendment it is pretty clear cut and easy to understand. With net neutrality all I see are death threats, hate, and 1 sided arguments. Well since people want to hate and throw fear into everything, I will not be on anyone's side.

My internet worked in 2007 and it works fine in 2017. If I have to move to Chattanooga, I WILL.
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by NeoJabez » December 11th, 2017, 9:52 pm

Wow, Shadows...interesting article. I think the major ISPs are stepping into the EA Hole. You know...where they are seen as dirty, money-grubbing lice of some kind, rather than the companies who bring us the sum of all human knowledge the moment we ask for it. (And a bunch of other stuff besides.)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/14/ ... le-hate-ea

It's funny because, like Elvis, and many others, I really don't want to be involved with either side. What I want is:
  • The government to stay WAY out of it, if possible,
  • Companies to not five and dime EVERYTHING...I mean, I don't want to be charged by the minute or the megabyte. I think the current model of speed vs. price makes more sense than amount of bandwidth vs. price.
  • That companies would stop using underhanded tactics and when confronted, pass it off as normal behavior because they're a corporation.
But, I use this phrase for everything from website designs/colors to anything really..."You can't please all the people, all the time."
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Re: Net Neutrality and your thoughts

Post by Eliter » December 13th, 2017, 11:02 pm

What gets me upset is that Ajit Pai doesn't seem to be honest, and from what I've read, it's been a rush vote by very few people voting on it.

I'm just trying to think about some of the things people have been saying about the Net Neutrality apeal's effect.

In all these events that companies have violated NN, or violated its concept before 2015, they did so, but it wasn't noticeable to the average joe. People had to whip out graphs and have to notice it on a big scale (i.e. hundreds of small changes that add up).

I remember back when Netflix didn't have a "are you still watching?" pop-up, and during certain times it would stop playing movies, and it would show up with an error on my TV screen. There error gave me and my family the impression that WE are having technical difficulties, or Netflix just sucks.

Now, I doubt it was because Cox Communications was throttling us, but it never passed our minds.

Imagine the last time a website was slow for a day, or remember the time when Netflix started slowing your connection. Our first assumption is it is OUR equipment failures. The second assumption is it is the server we connect to.

I think it'll just happen--the connections will slow or even stop to sites that they don't agree with, or who haven't made deals with them. No pop-ups, it'll just happen.

These ignorant people will think the site sucks, and move on. I tried getting my small website up and running (as far as marketing, and people going to it), and the #1 thing to look at is page load times.

Look at Amazon's increase in revenue when they made their pages load faster (by decreasing images and unneeded crap), and you can look at some other resources too. Basically, if it's too slow for users, they loose interest.

Let's say that the ISP's target specific people (blacklist). People will use things like VPN or Tor (I don't know much about the Tor network/browser) to bypass that, giving them an incentive to do the next part (see below).

Let's say ISP's start whitelisting IPs they like. That means that you can NEVER become a big site, if your not even big already.

As to the problem with your bandwidth hog neighbor, I think it's the ISP's fault for giving people a minimum/maximum bandwidth with their internet package. I hate how ISP's think it's okay to not disclose what they expect from users.

The bandwidth hog should be given his minimum bandwidth, we shouldn't cut him off based on his protocol. However, it becomes a problem when he interferes with other users.

Networking equipment should detect if there's enough room to be nice and give someone more bandwidth or not, and see if someone is intruding you or not.

I absolutely HATE ISP's--how they think it's a great idea to slap everyone on the same pipe the way they do. There should be minimums and maximums of bandwidth. Priority won't be given, it would just be a courtesy if ISP's give someone extra bandwidth on a neighborhood pipe if there's enough room. That's if they choose to, of course. They want you to upgrade speed packages, which is great in my opinion.


Our ISP's already look at everything we do, without many people being aware. Congress has already allowed it. However, ISP's are going to now possibly slip through the cracks and interfere with connections.

I really want to know how hard it is to start your own "internet" network that only reaches your neighborhood. Nothing else, just a small neighborhood network. How would you do that? I'm not talking about a bunch of wifi's hooked up in a jerry-rigged way, I'm talking about cables.
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