What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

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Hunter
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What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Hunter » August 15th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Fantastic sermon!



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Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Combiseries » August 15th, 2017, 3:48 pm

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Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Hunter » August 15th, 2017, 3:56 pm

Okay, why do you think it is a false doctrine? Tell me in your own words.
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Re: RE: Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Combiseries » August 15th, 2017, 4:01 pm

Hunter wrote:Okay, why do you think it is a false doctrine? Tell me in your own words.
Hmmm. Good question. One which I will have to ponder, it's late now and I'm up early in the morning. Those links are sound though. If you want a response in my words though, be a good friend and give me some time and I will get back to you. Good night and God bless.

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Re: RE: Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Hunter » August 15th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Combiseries wrote:
Hunter wrote:Okay, why do you think it is a false doctrine? Tell me in your own words.
Hmmm. Good question. One which I will have to ponder, it's late now and I'm up early in the morning. Those links are sound though. If you want a response in my words though, be a good friend and give me some time and I will get back to you. Good night and God bless.

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Alright man, God bless brother.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Combiseries » August 16th, 2017, 3:35 am

Hunter wrote:
Combiseries wrote:
Hunter wrote:Okay, why do you think it is a false doctrine? Tell me in your own words.
Hmmm. Good question. One which I will have to ponder, it's late now and I'm up early in the morning. Those links are sound though. If you want a response in my words though, be a good friend and give me some time and I will get back to you. Good night and God bless.

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Alright man, God bless brother.
Okay. I'll try and do this from my own head. If you want to read a more thorough description before I go ahead here is a link

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith

In my own words, the word of faith movement of which Kenneth Hagin is a proponent is heretical in my view because it involves a type of humanism. This speaking things into existence; healing, prosperity, good marriages etc is the person drawing on what is known ( in kindergarten church terms ) as the me me monster. I want I want I want, and if you believe in Jesus then he will give you whatever you want. I think He meant what you want spiritually not worldly (material things).

All things we get spiritually comes from faith in the Cross and what Jesus did there (die), then the Holy Spirit can work in your life. Word of faith simply means you exalt prosperity for yourself rather than Jesus (God). This is humanism, the teaching that you are god (little g) because you are Christ when rather it is Christ that should live in you.

God is infinite in power and majesty, putting the human being in equal terms even with a small g is heresy. Same with Mormon teaching that you can become a God through good behaviour in this earth. (Mormonism has a bit of new age in it too - Jesus' being the son of God and his wife etc.)

I don't want to come over all crass or anything but I wouldn't be a Christian if I didn't tell you to steer well clear of preachers like Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar (Dollar? is that even is real name!)

Rather I would recommend you look for the recordings of sermons from small local churches, you know the ones which don't profess to make you lots of money by making them rich through tithing or giving of your 'seed'.

Try Sermon Audio, plenty on there you can even search a map. Why not try my local church pastor in Wales. Visit their website.

http://www.lfec.org/messages

http://www.townhill.org.uk

These are the churches I attend. They are very small congregations, not your big mega churches where people go for cotten candy Christianity.

Good luck, love ya. God bless.



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Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Hunter » August 16th, 2017, 9:46 am

Okay so to start.

Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source. It can be edited freely by anyone.

You say here "In my own words, the word of faith movement of which Kenneth Hagin is a proponent is heretical in my view because it involves a type of humanism. This speaking things into existence; healing, prosperity, good marriages etc is the person drawing on what is known ( in kindergarten church terms ) as the me me monster. I want I want I want, and if you believe in Jesus then he will give you whatever you want. I think He meant what you want spiritually not worldly (material things)."

I would just like to say in 3 John 2 it says "Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." As you can see here, God wants us to prosper. He does not want us sitting around and just taking everything as it is, he wants us to prosper. This scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit through John!

Next, you say that the Word of Faith movement believes that if you believe in Jesus, he will give you whatever you want. This is not entirely true because we have to do our part, not just sitting around and letting him do all the work. In Luke 6:38 it says Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.” This means that we have to give ourselves for it to be given to us. So that argument is therefore invalid.

Next, you say "All things we get spiritually comes from faith in the Cross and what Jesus did there (die), then the Holy Spirit can work in your life. Word of faith simply means you exalt prosperity for yourself rather than Jesus (God). This is humanism, the teaching that you are god (little g) because you are Christ when rather it is Christ that should live in you."

Faith actually comes from faith in Jesus and Jesus is the living Word of God, not the Cross. The Cross is just a piece of wood that is used as a symbol of Jesus' crucifixion. Also, the Word of Faith movement does not believe you "exalt prosperity for yourself rather than Jesus". If God wishes you to prosper, why would it be bad? Finally, the Word of Faith movement believes that Christ is living in us, not that we are god (little g).

Finally, you say this "God is infinite in power and majesty, putting the human being in equal terms even with a small g is heresy. Same with Mormon teaching that you can become a God through good behaviour in this earth. (Mormonism has a bit of new age in it too - Jesus' being the son of God and his wife etc.)" Again, the Word of Faith movement do NOT believe that they are gods. They just know that God can provide all of their needs by faith. Philippians 4:19 "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."

Look, I know this debate is not going to do anything to change your view. That's why I am not going to post anything more in regards to this as it's going to start an argument.

God bless brother.
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<22:08:26> "cappiman": Hour 4, still waiting for samsung, haven't had food or anything to drink in 4 hours please send help.

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Re: What To Do When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Lost

Post by Zhies » November 3rd, 2018, 10:37 pm

I think the book of Job is the best example of what to do when victory appears to be lost. At the end of the day, our faith can endure, because God has given us each the measure of faith we need (Romans 12:3) and has made a way of escape for us. (1 Corinthians 10:13) This doesn't mean that we will all prosper in this life. You can look at the Fox's Book of Martyrs for many examples of Christians that endured horrible circumstances for the will of God. Hebrews 11 documents the "hall of heroes" for Christianity that we should model ourselves after - as we follow Christ. Most notably Hebrews 11:35-38 speaks of their final condition. These were all people of great faith, and yet Hebrews 11:39-40.

We all pray for God for various things, but these should be done with a pure heart. (James 4:3) At the end of our lives, we will all face the judgment. Our desire should be that we all achieve God's individual destiny for all of us - to the greatest extent, whether it be in prosperity or tribulation. With this challenge, whether we are faithful in either situation, the Apostle Paul poses us this great challenge with himself as an example. (Philippians 4:12-13)

Lastly, let us remember our Lord Jesus Christ's final challenge and encouragement to those that are faithful. (Revelation 3:10-12)
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