Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

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Reconize
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by Reconize » April 30th, 2016, 10:31 pm

They do realize that this will be heavily content oriented right? That's the idea of ACE...create and share content/ideas/tutorials/etc. With more content comes the need for space and management of that stuff. I'm not sure one forum area will handle all the stuff we used to post up. but I never thought that ACE separated anyone anyways.

Neo can explain it better than I, and already has, but for any other confusion. ACE is for the artsy people of CC. We are a part of CC but have our own little area. Like the UMA had, or the Counsel, also like the current divisions we have here...all part of the whole.

Rec
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by NeoJabez » April 30th, 2016, 11:34 pm

Actually Rec, you may have said it better than I could have. :)
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by oxygencube » May 1st, 2016, 2:28 pm

NeoJabez wrote:... ACE is separate from CC...

Reconize wrote:ACE is for the artsy people of CC. We are a part of CC but have our own little area.


Ok, this is where I am confused. Neo is saying it is separate and you are saying it is a part of CC. I think we need the leaders of CC and the leaders of ACE to agree on what ACE is and fundamentally how it relates to CC, this will decide on how it is represented by CC and what type of support/marketing/publicity/integration it will receive.

It is either part of us, and should then be a discussion among leadership as to how it should be integrated and supported or it isn't and thus be run and hosted elsewhere, right now it feels a big rouge and nebulous.

I think the vision for what you guys want ACE to be needs to be described and fleshed out.... 'we used to have' isn't helpful. If it is going to fall under the CC umbrella and the tech/web team is going to manage it and integrate anything ACE then we need to be involved as with all things web/tech related.

It seems to me that ACE wants the freedom to call the shots and sorta run with their vision unhindered but this doesn't work from a tech/web team perspective. We spent many hours designing and brainstorming the entire scope of our new site and ACE was never brought up even once. Now we are more than 3/4 through the implementation side and we are discussing adding a very feature heavy community driven aspect to the site. This isn't something done overnight, it takes many hours planning and brainstorming in regards to integration both functionally and visually.

As a lead guy on the web/tech team I really am confused as to how a site hosted on or connected to ccgaming.com got launched without me even knowing it was in the works. Honestly, that is quite frustrating.

Speaking bluntly but in love..

..oxy..
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by NeoJabez » May 1st, 2016, 8:31 pm

Response Pending.
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by NeoJabez » May 1st, 2016, 9:20 pm

I still don't understand why people are having an issue with this when ACE has had two previous separate websites. Both Reconize and myself were correct, we are a sub-group of CC, meaning that we only exist because CC Members are interested in the concept and will take part. I have had a thread up for months asking people if they would participate in a 'revival' of ACE, and received pretty good responses.

Oxy said:
I think we need the leaders of CC and the leaders of ACE to agree on what ACE is and fundamentally how it relates to CC, this will decide on how it is represented by CC and what type of support/marketing/publicity/integration it will receive.

It is either part of us, and should then be a discussion among leadership as to how it should be integrated and supported or it isn't and thus be run and hosted elsewhere, right now it feels a big rouge and nebulous.


ACE doesn't need to be 'marketed, publicized, or integrated', it can do that itself for itself, if it's even needed. And at the moment, it is technically hosted elsewhere, is it not? (On CC's server, with a CC sub-domain, but a whole different website). This whole 'branding' of CC thing is CC, not ACE...ACE isn't a professional organization, ACE isn't a publicly traded entity or corporation. It has done pretty well for a really long time without being integrated with CC. The minute it was integrated into CC's forums, it's members gave up on it. ACE was a grass roots thing, and it kind of died out. Seems less like people had a problem with it before, than that they are simply against it's 'resurrection' now.

I respect you as an artist, Oxy, but the belief that ANYTHING graphics related in our community (in ACE) is going to pass through you first is not how it works. There are no UNILATERAL leaders here. Are you the Official CC Graphic Designer? Sure. But that's one reason ACE IS SEPARATED, it's for fun! Not official marketing/branding reasons. People are taking this WAY too seriously. If people visit ACE, and take part, it will do well, if they do not, it will die...Completely apart from how well or how not well CC's rebranding goes.

ACE will NOT be a part of the new CC website, it will either remain on it's own, or it will cease to exist. If you want it gone so badly, it will probably fail. Blunt talk is fine, but encouragement is better, don't you think?

Rocket League has a division...And people have FUN with Rocket League, but they know, at the end of the day, they are a part of something bigger, the fellowship of the CC Community itself, which expresses itself through many means and many medias.

Are you saying graphics people can't have the same? (I don't play a whole lot of games lately, should I leave CC because I don't play a whole lot of games? Am I now the wrong demographic?) CC never had a place for Omegilla to share his short stories before ACE, or Reconize his CC Member Card Decks. The Body of Christ is made up of many different parts, why can't the hand exist without the brain criticizing the hands' value?

ACE always called you an "honorary member" because of your extreme prowess in 3D Art, Graphic Design, and everything else you do...But you've never chosen to take part in ACE before, why is it such a big deal to you now?
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by oxygencube » May 1st, 2016, 10:51 pm

I can sense you becoming frustrated with me. Maybe it's best if we can have a chat about this in TS. I am trying to be honest and sincere with my posts, I was only being more straight forward because you told me I could.
NeoJabez wrote:And Oxy...Never, ever worry about how you'll sound, Brother.


I am only asking questions because I need clarity and how to proceed on the site. Just yesterday you said that you were planing on integrating ACE into CC's site which is why I asked those specific questions, now you are saying you don't want to.
NeoJabez wrote:I talked this over quite a bit with Council tonight, and I'm going to do everything in my power to make ACE integrated with the new (upcoming) CC site...

I may still have some of what you see at the current ACE site available in the new CC site, perhaps framed inside of new CC pages...


Neo, I am just trying to understand your vision for what ACE is, and I'm mainly interested because there could potentially be some overlap with the website, that's all bro. Trust me, I want the creative people of CC to be able to have fun and express themselves but every group, division, or initiative in CC is at least ran past leadership to learn how to help and how to relate it to the new website but it sounds like this is a project you don't want help on. Even if ACE is an entirely different site, are we going to link to it somewhere on the new site? If so, where? Who makes that call? I know all these questions can be a bit much but it's only cause I want clarity of the vision both for me personally as a member, and as a tech/web guy trying to help make the CC web presence the best site it can be.

Sorry man, but I have the tendency to push people for excellence and ask clarifying questions to help them think through their vision, that's all I'm trying to do here.
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by NeoJabez » May 2nd, 2016, 12:52 am

I totally get that, Oxy...And I thank you very kindly for your graceful response.

Basically, if people WANT ACE to be integrated in the new site, that's fine. They'll have to understand that this will be a lot of extra work, (even if only for me putting all of ACE's ingredient pages into existing templates), and that by being a part of the CC Site, Tech/Web Support indeed have room to say what can and cannot be included. It would also not happen anytime soon.

Having it separated is both a good thing and a huge gamble, in my opinion. First, it's a good thing because the headers graphics will be made by members. Galleries will be filled by members. Any music, videos, stories, or any other content will be shown the way that member wants it shown, within our framework, and our tools. They will have a bit of leeway to affect ACE's corner of the website...So to speak.

But it's also a gamble. People may not visit the site, or decide it's just too much trouble to click through to another site. One Council Member basically said that logging in to CC related websites twice in a row seemed silly to him. It's a good point.

At the moment, I say ACE needs to stay on its own. The main reason for that being that its already there, and we have much bigger fish to fry with the upcoming CCG reveal. Let's see how the ACE site does all by its lonesome while we focus on the important work we need to do here.

If ACE is dead as a doorknob when the new CCG site is out, it might not help to integrate ACE, it might be time to just hang up the idea altogether.

Either way, one reason ACE is separate right now is that I found WordPress and phpBB3 to be somewhat restrictive on what I could accomplish, and I don't understand their theming system quite as readily as other CMSs. The system running at ACE right now is actually just a very user-friendly forums system I've used like 4 times in the past, which happens to have very extensible tools for adding pages. So, instead of a website with integrated forums, it's more of a forums with integrated web pages.

I know there's a thing out there called BuddyPress, which is basically a social network centered, multiple WordPress site organizational system. Stargater could explain it better than I, and perhaps we could integrate the two sites using such a tool. But its unimportant right now next to the new CC site, and its construction.

So...Bottom line: What is my vision for ACE? Together or apart from CC's forums, ACE should be a site where people can:

  • Post video/graphics/text tutorials to help each other learn. (Not just graphics programs but anything really.) I don't mean like forum posts, I mean more like blog posts, or profile posts.
  • Have an effect on the 'first impression view/header area' of ACE's site, whether by winning an artwork contest, or simply the members vote it should be placed there. Do members want music available? Should it be built in, or maybe a popout player? So you can listen whether you stay on ACE, or drift back into CC? What members want, without having to bug a committee of leaders, bring it up in a forum post, then in a meeting, etc. If it's something that could not in any way compromise ACE or CC, it gets done.
  • ACE should be clearly defined as a group specifically designed to not divide CC, but rather bring it closer together. ACE's original intent was to welcome new people by immediately offering sigs and avatars so people would feel included.
  • One reason I like ACE to be on a separate site, and to kind of admin it with a smaller group, is that we like to be able to add bells and whistles when it suits us. Lightboxes for graphics views? Sure! (Even if CC doesn't do this.) You want a little ChatBox? Absolutely! Basically, ACE has always been more organic, and more ready for change.

Ultimately, I don't really know how CC should link to or connect to ACE right now. CC Members are going to be simply blown away by the CC Site itself, any linking of anything there can be unobtrusive and not that big a deal, or it can be like the rest of the site, beautiful design, uncluttered responsiveness, easy usefulness. That would be more your department than mine, sir.

My passion on this subject is simply so strong because there was a time when our ACE members inspired me every day of the week, just like our Teachers, and our Members here at CC. I would jump on the CC site, and someone would make my day, and then jump on the ACE site, and boom! Someone would make my day all over again! It was something special. I'm truly sad so many ACE members moved on to other things in their lives and haven't been around in so long, but some of them have gone off to college, gotten married, are building families. Maybe they'll stumble upon us by accident soon, ya never know.

The few ACE Members still around are all for this revitalization, and I want to give them the gift of bringing ACE back. They enjoyed it as much as I did, I think.

I hope I've answered some of your questions, I know this is tl:dr rambling, but I have a passion for both CCG and ACE, and want both of them to thrive. I'm easily discouraged lately, and I know I come across a little frustrated, but in truth, I just want our community to appear to the outside world, (and its existing members!) like the serious, thriving community it has always been. A new person's first impressions should be very favorable, and I believe both the new CC site, and the new ACE site can accomplish that together somehow. I welcome your thoughts, I really do.

What do YOU think should be done with ACE? Should it be separated, or should it fall under CC Tech/Web Support, and make its way into the new site? (Regardless of the work, I can do a HUGE amount of the work.)
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by Reconize » May 3rd, 2016, 12:41 am

Let's not forget about the new members it may have as well. At one time, I didn't know anything about photoshop, nor was I an artistic person. Then Fisher kinda showed me some stuff and then I went out and found how to do stuff with it. It my time in CC more fun. I was creating things for people...

I then took my brother under my wings and showed him stuff with it. Co_Pyro. He enjoyed it so much that he made a career out of it and is now a graphics artist and does amazing stuff, professional stuff, stuff I could never imagine myself doing. BTW he makes a pretty good living doing it for websites and such.

That's why I think we need to try to 'revive' it. Not really for the current members, but for those who might not yet know how talented they are until they try it.

Rec
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by NeoJabez » May 3rd, 2016, 1:32 am

Rec reminded me of something...

We have said for years that if The Christian Crew helped lead ONE PERSON to salvation, just helped one individual find and learn about Christ, our Mission was a success.

ACE used to say something similar about graphics and arts. And Co_Pyro went on to a career in it! (Mission Accomplished! Maybe there's more people we can help!)

I remember Co_Pyro (a long time ago) asking me how to do something graphically, and I gave him the goofiest, roundabout way ever to do such a thing. I'd give completely different advice now, and by the sound of it, he'd probably be explaining it to me! heh
Spoiler! :
Oh wow, thank goodness for old hard drives...He asked me how to make a selection any shape he wanted so he could make a lighter cornea for this eyeball:

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And he ended up with something better than this, (this was my example, keep in mind I was a newbie myself at the time):

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I bet if you show him these, Reconize, he'll say "Wow, Neo is old, and hangs on to useless stuff for way too long. Is he a computer hoarder?" lol
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Re: Reposting my Straw poll, since theres two different ACE things...

Post by oxygencube » May 3rd, 2016, 9:44 pm

Neo, just writing to say that I see your post. Been thinking a lot about it, still working through some ideas. In a sense, it almost seems like the 'ACE site' itself is ACE. As if having a site to fiddle with and tweak is a requirement for ACE. Do you think that's the case.. once again. Just trying to hear your perspective bro.
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